Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/10/1993 08:00 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 10, 1993
8:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Williams, Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson, Vice Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative Pat Carney
Representative John Davies
Representative Joe Green
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative David Finkelstein
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmations to Board of Game: Roger Huntington
Ernie Polley
Anne Ruggles
Jack Didrickson
WITNESS REGISTER
Anne Ruggles
P.O. Box 82950
Fairbanks, Alaska 99708
Phone: 474-7741
Position Statement: Provided information and answered
questions related to her nomination to
the Board of Game.
Jack C. Didrickson
P.O. Box 712
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Phone: 745-3178
Position Statement: Provided information and answered
questions related to his appointment to
the Board of Game.
Ernie Polley
634 W. 12th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: 586-1437
Position Statement: Provided information and answered
questions related to his appointment to
the Board of Game.
Ben Ellis
Kenai River Sport Fishermen, Inc.
Box 1228
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Phone: 262-8588
Position Statement: Opposed Deborah Lyons' appointment to
Board of Fisheries.
Roger Huntington
P.O. Box 86
Galena, Alaska 99741
Position Statement: Provided information and answered
questions related to his appointment to
the Board of Game.
Hugh Doogan
359 Slater St.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Phone: 456-1869
Position Statement: Supported Susan Entsminger's appointment
to Board of Game.
David Vandenberg
210 Driveway Street
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Phone: 452-5021
Position Statement: Supported Anne Ruggles' appointment to
the Board of Game.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-27, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Resources Committee was called to order by
Chairman Bill Williams at 8:14 a.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Williams, Hudson, Bunde,
Carney, Davies, Green, James, and Mulder. Absent at the
call was Representative Finkelstein.
CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS announced the meeting was being held
by teleconference with sites in Fairbanks, Kenai, Soldotna,
Barrow and Anchorage. The subject of the meeting, he
explained, was to consider the confirmation of four
appointments to the Board of Game. He said appointees would
have the chance to testify and respond to questions first,
and then public testimony would be taken if time allowed.
He added no action would be taken at the meeting, and the
confirmation decisions would be held until legal questions
surrounding the seat that Ernie Polley was appointed to are
addressed.
Number 084
ANNE RUGGLES, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF GAME, described for
the committee her background in wildlife biology as a
researcher and educator.
Number 118
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN referred to Ms. Ruggles' term on
the Alaska Wolf Management Team, and asked her to comment on
her background as a reviewer and her stand on predator
control.
MS. RUGGLES explained that in her role as reviewer in a
variety of projects, she analyzed information and offered
her opinion and recommendation on wildlife management
proposals.
Number 156
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Ms. Ruggles to describe her views
on predator control in Alaska.
MS. RUGGLES did not have a stand on one side or the other in
the controversy, and commented that predator control can be
a useful tool in some circumstances. Each instance, she
said, has to be reviewed on its own merits after careful
review of ecological restraints as well as cultural and
human value goals.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked Ms. Ruggles if she had
played a role in the development of Alaska's wolf management
plan, and whether she believed intensive game management was
appropriate in each of the three areas.
MS. RUGGLES had a role in devising the wolf management plan
as a member of the Wolf Management Planning Team. She said
the team's consensus report was used as a basis for the
draft wolf management plan. She then participated as a
member of the public at public meetings, and testified at
the Board of Game meeting in November, 1992, during which
the plan was considered. She also participated on the
committee of the whole which carefully scrutinized the plan.
Number 200
MS. RUGGLES described the three control plans, and added
those plans were a small part of what the board did in
November, 1992. She prefaced her description by stating
that the Wolf Management Planning Team considered education
to be very important in relation to decisions, but education
was lacking. She felt education was important because the
wolf management issue was so contentious.
Number 219
MS. RUGGLES explained that the team felt unless the state
put together a long-term education and information program
that addressed both Alaska and people outside the state, the
issue could never be resolved. Because of budget
constraints, such a program was not incorporated, she added,
although it is now beginning to get underway. Because of
the lack of information to the public, she was not surprised
by the reaction to the plan, she added.
MS. RUGGLES went on to address the three specific wolf
management areas. First, she described Game Management Unit
20A, the Delta Caribou herd, where she felt there was a real
need to protect the herd for the use of hunters. She said
that area has been consistently hunted by people from the
Fairbanks area. She hesitated to expand the plan to include
moose. Regarding Unit 20E, the Forty Mile, she said there
was a real conservation need behind the plan, which was
broadly spread out to include a large area, and was not
well-defined. The Forty Mile, she said, was the best chance
to control game and accomplish the plan's goals.
Number 300
MS. RUGGLES then addressed Game Management Unit 13, which
she did not believe was a good idea. Originally,
information showed the caribou herd was reaching capacity.
It was also a case of regulation versus reduction of wolf
populations. Another problem she described with the plan
was that the control activity was going to be done by the
public and not by the state. This created a perception
problem, she said, because people are more ready to accept
game control if it is done by state professionals rather
than the public. She said four recommendations were made,
including the use of helicopters manned by state personnel.
An error in the printing of the plan left out that
recommendation, she explained.
Number 355
VICE CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON asked Ms. Ruggles to comment on
whether she would be able and willing to commit to the level
of time required for service on the Board of Game.
MS. RUGGLES affirmed she had a flexible schedule that she
would be able to adjust for the time required for service on
the board.
Number 380
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE asked Ms. Ruggles to share her
personal recommendations regarding the wolf plan, and
whether or not she had supported the final product.
MS. RUGGLES answered that she had no problem with the final
report, and reiterated it had been a consensus report,
published only after every member of the team agreed to its
contents. She pointed out there were some things lacking
from the report for the reason that consensus had not been
reached. She said the final report considered the needs of
all Alaskans, and was not biased toward any interest or
consumption group. She added all needs were seen as
legitimate and the working group tried to accommodate all
those needs. There was also, she commented, a recognition
that they needed to get serious about education.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE questioned whether it was ever possible
to accommodate both the animal rights' interests and
hunters.
MS. RUGGLES said it was impossible to accommodate extremists
on either side. For the most part, she said, those are the
people who participate in public discussion, and not the
larger number of people who are more toward the middle of
the extremes.
Number 428
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Ms. Ruggles to comment on the
principle of sustained yield.
MS. RUGGLES commented that Alaska has relatively undisturbed
wildlife, but also relatively low productivity because of
its location in a northern system. With short summers and
cold soil, most of the nutrients are tied up in dead organic
matter. She felt the state had done a good job of managing
its resources on a sustained yield basis. She said the
unique ecosystem requires a careful approach. The primary
question for the state, she explained, would be what kind of
sustained yield to achieve.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that people play a role as
part of the ecosystem, so we should attempt to manage for
sustained yield.
MS. RUGGLES agreed, and noted with increasing numbers of
people and their demands on the ecosystem, it would get
trickier. She agreed sports hunting is a legitimate use of
the resource, and added that non-hunting uses are also
legitimate.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE raised the issue of the "land and
shoot" policy of game management, and asked Ms. Ruggles to
comment on the most efficient and humane ways to approach
such management policies.
MS. RUGGLES replied that no matter how the issue was
approached, there would be considerable public outcry from
within Alaska and from outside the state. She referred to
the November, 1992 wolf management decision, and said
opposition to land and shoot policies was strong from both
hunters and non-hunters.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Ms. Ruggles to comment on the
tourism boycott which resulted from that Board of Game
decision.
MS. RUGGLES replied that people have the right to say or do
whatever they want, and were not forced into participating
in the boycott. She noted however, that the groups
participating in the boycott did not have access to the
right information, which goes back, she said, to her
previous comments on the need for education and information
to the public.
Number 522
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would hear from
the next appointee to the Board of Game, Jack Didrickson.
He explained the situation behind Mr. Didrickson's
appointment. After another appointee had been rejected by
the legislature in 1992, Governor Hickel appointed Mr.
Didrickson in May, 1992, but withdrew his name in January,
1993, before confirmation by the legislature. Ernie Polley
was nominated to serve in the seat to which Mr. Didrickson
had previously been appointed.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted an opinion from the Legislative
Legal Services' attorney stated the Governor's action was
not legal because Mr. Didrickson had not been removed for
cause. He noted the committee would need to decide whether
to put the name of Mr. Didrickson and/or Mr. Polley on the
floor for confirmation by the House.
Number 545
JACK DIDRICKSON, BOARD OF GAME APPOINTEE, described his
background for the committee. He arrived in Alaska in 1959
and worked for the Department of Fish and Game as a game
biologist from that time until 1987. Since his retirement
from the department, he has worked as a consultant to the
Alaska Railroad on moose problems.
Number 563
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Didrickson to describe his
stand on predator control, and specifically whether he would
favor reducing the wolf population to allow more hunting.
Number 570
MR. DIDRICKSON responded that it is all right to take wolves
in some situations where they depress the population of
prey. Regarding the recent boycott over the Board of Game
decisions on wolf hunting, Mr. Didrickson felt the problem
was the public's lack of understanding of the issues. He
added the board has the right to ensure the public is able
to use animals for both consumptive and non-consumptive
purposes.
Number 591
REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER commented on the lack of
information or misinformation to the public, and asked Mr.
Didrickson how he felt the dissemination of information
could be improved.
Number 605
MR. DIDRICKSON answered that the problem is money, and that
information officers cost a lot of money. He noted there
had been many problems over the years caused by a lack of
information and disinformation caused by reporters giving
partial or erroneous information. He mentioned in reaction
to the wolf control decisions of the board, he had received
telephone calls at home, and spent over an hour explaining
the board's decision to a man from Florida who had received
erroneous information from the media. Regarding a solution
to the problem, Mr. Didrickson suggested the answer may lie
with the legislature, who could provide adequate money to
the Department of Fish and Game to provide adequate
information to the public.
Number 638
VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented on the perception of Alaska
held by people outside of the state, and suggested a forum
be established to explain to the public the management
responsibilities of the state. He then addressed the legal
question surrounding Mr. Didrickson's appointment to the
Board. He asked Mr. Didrickson to comment on why he should
be confirmed.
MR. DIDRICKSON explained he had never been told the cause
for his name being withdrawn from nomination, and his
refusal to step aside was based on principle. He mentioned
at the time the governor appointed him in 1992, he was asked
his reasons for wanting to serve on the Board of Game, and
told the Governor then that serving the people of Alaska was
his primary mission.
Number 684
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to the wolf control
controversy, and asked what effect it would have on future
controversial decisions.
TAPE 93-27, SIDE B
Number 000
MR. DIDRICKSON replied that it would depend on the
circumstances. The biological information that comes in, he
said, would be the basis for the Board's decision.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked about Mr. Didrickson's personal
decisions on the board, and the role played by science
versus politics.
Number 019
MR. DIDRICKSON answered that the Board of Game has many
factors to take into consideration, but added the only oath
the board members took was to the constitution of the state.
He said that oath and the scientific information received
from the Department of Fish and Game would be the basis for
his personal decisions.
Number 045
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Didrickson to comment on
each of the three predator control areas previously
discussed by Ms. Ruggles.
MR. DIDRICKSON first commented on the Forty Mile herd, and
said the decision was justified. His only problem with
that, he said, was that the animals belong to the people,
but it proved impossible to issue aerial permits because of
the terrain. Regarding Unit 20A, he said that herd is
becoming depressed in an area with a large human population.
He said the board, and he personally, felt it was worth
saving. Predators were taking down the population 15-20%
per year, he explained.
MR. DIDRICKSON then addressed unit 13E, and said land and
shoot permits had been issued there over the past two years.
This policy had handled the problem fairly well, except that
other predator problems were diminishing prey populations as
well. Grizzly bears in particular posed a problem that had
not yet been addressed, he added. The governor's
elimination of the aerial predator control, he suggested,
may alter the balance where populations were level, he said.
Number 124
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked whether the situation in the
last area described was one to maintain an existing control
program.
MR. DIDRICKSON replied in the affirmative.
Number 134
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would next hear
from Ernie Polley, who would serve out the remaining nine
months of the term to which he was appointed, if confirmed.
Number 142
ERNIE POLLEY, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF GAME, commented on
the question of the volatile situation with Alaska's
wildlife management being affected by perceptions and
actions of people outside the state. He suggested tourism
interests become involved in helping to disseminate
information on wildlife resource management. Regarding his
interest in serving on the board, Mr. Polley remarked on his
readiness to get back into public service, and his abiding
interest in resource management in Alaska.
Number 194
VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented on the representation of
Southeast Alaska on the Board of Game. He felt it was
important for the board to have regional and Native
representation.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Polley's feelings on the
balance between competing interests in managing the state's
game resources.
MR. POLLEY had attended the Wolf Summit held in Fairbanks in
January, 1993, believes in predator control, and described
it as part of reaching a balance of the whole system. He
said expertise and sound biological professional judgement
are important. He noted the increasing pressures in
managing and allocating the resources for the broadest
cross-section. The competition, he said, is not just in
quantitative terms, but also philosophically.
Number 267
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS opened the meeting to public testimony.
BEN ELLIS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF KENAI RIVER SPORT FISHING,
INC., testified by teleconference from Kenai in opposition
to the confirmation of Deborah Lyons to the Board of
Fisheries. He called her reappointment a political move,
and expressed concern with her comments on sport fishing.
He was dissatisfied with Ms. Lyons' response to a question
during a prior confirmation hearing regarding reductions on
sport fishing on Kenai River reds.
Number 348
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced Board of Game appointee Roger
Huntington was available to testify by teleconference from
Hoonah. He said Mr. Huntington had been reappointed to his
second term.
Number 368
ROGER HUNTINGTON, APPOINTEE TO THE BOARD OF GAME, testified
by teleconference from Hoonah, and explained he had
originally been appointed to fill the seat of his father,
who had resigned from the board. He felt he could
contribute to the benefit of the resources, given his
background and experience.
Number 390
VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Huntington whether he was
prepared and able to give the Board of Game the amount of
time and attention demanded.
MR. HUNTINGTON was prepared to make that commitment.
Number 421
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Huntington to comment on the
issues of intensive game management, and his view on when
and where such techniques were appropriate. He also raised
the question of balancing the interests of consumptive and
non-consumptive users of wildlife resources.
Number 435
MR. HUNTINGTON responded by mentioning HB 41 and SB 77, and
said the bills are viable tools to meet the needs of both
consumptive and non-consumptive users of the resources. He
noted increasing pressure on resources with the encroachment
of human populations. The intensive management bill, he
said, could benefit the Board of Game.
Number 475
HUGH DOOGAN testified by teleconference from Fairbanks in
support of the confirmation of Susan Entsminger to the Board
of Game. He referred to the focus on wolf control and
commented that the board is involved in more broad habitat
management. He suggested the committee ask appointees
whether they would represent all the people of Alaska.
Number 500
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS replied that the committee had been asking
appointees that question.
Number 510
DAVID VANDENBERG, NORTHERN ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL CENTER,
testified by teleconference from Fairbanks in support of
Anne Ruggles' appointment to the Board of Game. He said she
has shown open-mindedness to the truth, has studied the
issues, is obsessed with education, and would not be a
party-line vote on the Board of Game, but would instead vote
as an objective scientist.
Number 525
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS concluded public testimony by
teleconference.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would meet next on
Friday, March 12, at 8:00 a.m., to hear a briefing by the
Water and Wastewater Works Advisory Board, followed by
consideration of HB 201.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House
Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting
at 9:31 a.m.
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